I love agents who love to teach.
You know what I mean. Certain agents (and it seems to me the number is increasing) put time into blog posts, interviews, and tweets in order to impart knowledge to aspiring authors. If you want to know how to avoid query pitfalls, how the publishing industry works, or what "voice" means, chances are there's already something out there for you to read. And it's likely written by an agent with a teacher's heart.
It's all good.
But.
I've reached a point (and this isn't a bad thing) at which I no longer need to be told that addressing a query letter "Dear Sir or Madam" or sharing my third-grade writing habits as part of my bio is wrong. I'm a veteran querier; I get requests and everything. I know the ropes.
Really well.
I know I'm not alone. There are many who, like me, understand how this business works. We've learned the rights-and-wrongs, we've polished our work, we've had success--though not ultimate success--in the querying arena. So, more and more, the string of "don't call agents to ask if they accept queries" and "never write back and ask 'why' when you receive a rejection" has become wearisome.
Also, I fear that much of this well-meaning, excellent advice is being preached to the choir. The net-savvy, blog-reading writers (like you) have done the homework, read the advice, learned their way around.
The rest of writerdom is lurking beneath moss-coated rocks, penning queries with otter blood.
Well, maybe not. But the slew of do's-and-don't's must be falling on a lot of deaf ears, because agents are still complaining about the junk clogging their inboxes. Genres they don't represent. Mass-mailed queries with no research behind them. Passive-aggressive responses to form rejections.
It's not going away. Because that sector of aspiring authors isn't reading anything.
I'm sure it's frustrating for the agents who have taken time to instruct and enlighten and still receive the junk. But it's also frustrating for writers who are doing things right, and whose queries are stuck in the mire with the bad ones. Surely this is one of the factors that has led some agents to adopt a "no response" policy.
You know how much I hate the "no response" thing. I won't go there.
So we've got altruistic agents trying desperately to teach the masses, and we've got informed writers who are listening and applying the knowledge. But obviously the query-from-hell problem still exists. Is thriving, even.
I don't have an answer. Only an exhausted sort of "I've heard this seven thousand times" feeling. And a gentle reminder to each of you to please, please be on the winning team here. Learn how to do things right, and do them.
And take a moment to tweet or comment your thanks to the agent who enlightened you.
There. I feel a little better now.
Miss Snark's First Victim
I think that unfortunately a lot of the folks needing the 'basic advice' when querying are the ones that don't read blogs. That's the irony!
ReplyDeleteI think once you get the query as good as you can (and you know it's good because you've done everything right!) it all comes down to finding the right agent for the book. Unfortunately there are no posts on guaranteeing how to find that match. All you can do is try to do is follow this formula:
Agent's interest + strong manuscript + looking for clients + marketable concept + large potential audience + likelyhood of publishing houses willing to take on this new author + high revenue genre = representation
What an easy formula! And of course getting an agent doesn't translate into instant sales, either...that's a whole new kettle of fish...
Some days it's laugh or cry. But if we don't stay in the game, we won't ever succeed. And I don't think people would be here reading this blog if they weren't in it for the long haul. :-) It will happen!
I also want to thank all agents for how hard they work, how they so tirelessly try educate us and share insight into the process, and how they continually try to keep our spirits lifted during this upheaval in the industry. This last year or so has been tough on everyone, and it takes a special person to stay upbeat and encouraging.
ReplyDelete"...it's also frustrating for writers who are doing things right, and whose queries are stuck in the mire with the bad ones..."
ReplyDeleteOh my sainted Aunt Penelope, I agree. With bells on. This is frustrating to the point of TEARS, I tell you. On the one hand, I really really want to be a good sport and a professional and all that.
But I also want to stand on a chair and yell at all the over-confident, misguided deaf-to-all-advice blunderbusses to clear the road because it's crowded enough with professional, talented, dedicated writers who all deserve a chance!
I too hate the no reply. I mean, I get why agents have chosen that route, but I hate the not-knowing-for-certain. Ginger Clark has come up with a decent middle ground where she tweets that if you queried her before x and you haven't heard, she's passing.
That's closure at least.
*steps off soapbox*
I know how you feel. I skim/skip a lot of agent blogs now for that very reason.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, if I can offer some hope here, there ARE new writers being added to the lists of agent blog followers...writers who DON'T know this stuff yet, but ARE willing to learn, and who find it much easier to click "subscribe in my RSS" than to read back through 168 blog posts by 8 different agents. It's just too much to take in all at once.
And I know these authors are out there, because I'm sending them there. :-) I teach a workshop on networking and the Internet for aspiring writers, and everyone loves it because I explain just how they can avoid becoming part of that camp and becoming part of ours instead...and greatly increase their chances of getting published at the same time.
So hang in there. It's totally fine to skip blogs or even *gasp* unsubscribe to one that you no longer need! :-)
It would be really nice, though, if an agent started blogging on the tougher-to-pin-down-things. Things like story structure and how that affects the strength of the plot. Things like what makes characterization stand out. But then...maybe they don't know how to teach that...only identify it. After all, I can identify a minivan, though I have no clue how to build one.
Francesca: blunderbusses...*snort*! I have to say I wholeheartedly agree here, and have taken to skimming some agent blogs, just like Kathleen. I always continue to visit though, just in case. There are a few agent blogs out there that have taken into consideration the fact that those reading the blogs have already almost mastered the art of querying and are needing a bit more. Mary Kole has a entire "series" on characterization, and I *think* Intern (internspills.blogspot.com) had a large number of posts in November '09 called "NaNoReVisMo", with tips on revisions and rewrites. I agree that it's super frustrating to be waiting by your inbox indefinitely while attempting to figure out if those handful of agents you have yet to hear from are in the "No Response Means No" camp or never received your query. Sucky.
ReplyDeleteFrom a personal standpoint, I know exactly what you're saying.
ReplyDeleteBUT, I receive e-mails semi-frequently from writers who have finished their first book, stumbled onto the net for information, and don't have a clue but are looking for answers. I can happily send them to any number of agent blogs, specific posts, etc. and set them on the right track.
It may look like we're all veterans these days, but there are new writers constantly discovering and learning what we already know. I think that's why agents continue to instruct. They see a continual need for it as I'm sure they get a heck of a lot more e-mails from these lost aspiring writers than I do.
Ugh. Yep.
ReplyDeleteThank you to agents for posting comments on blogs and twitter as to what is problematic in queries they see coming in.
Some of them are basics that I (thank-God) know already, but once in a while I see something that does give me a panic attack - or ideas.
About the people still making beginner mistakes and not learning from them... *holds head*
It is exactly like American Idol.
There are some people who audition on the show who are mature adults who listen to music and follow the show... but they still make the SAME embarrassing mistakes as everyone else.
The other thing is agents and other people trying to help people understand the business side of writing - they are going up against pop culture and fiction. <- This is the thing that BUGS me when I read a book or watch a movie where the main character is a writer. Because it is always idealised and looks so easy! :[
I am eternally grateful to the agents that take the time to blog and tweet about the mistakes writers make.
ReplyDeleteLOL about the media's portrayal of writers. To give Julie & Julia credit, the movie did show the main character's nervous breakdowns, but the scene where agents and publishers were shouting offers from her answering machine (though awesome!) was too surreal and likely gives many people the wrong idea.
Still, that movie is about two of my favorite things: Cooking and Publishing.
Don't rent it, buy it!
The no response thing sucks, though it makes me more thourough in checking an agent's website to see if they are one of "those."
Good luck everyone!
YES!
ReplyDeleteAgents who teach are amazing, and I've learned so so much since I entered the blogosphere, but yeah, I have a very strong grasp of the basics and more at this point, and I so wish I could force every aspiring writer to put that much effort into learning the business.
One thing I still find helpful -- etiquette posts. For example, when a writer has interest from multiple agents (we should all be so lucky)... how do you handle it? Generally these are very specific questions posted by a writer that an agent responds to. I love that, if I ever have a tricky situation, I know I can find the answer online.
My first visit here and the post alone was very compelling. The comments here are great. I wrote my first manuscript and needed a starting place to determine how to write queries. I bought Writers Market and learned some but the agents blogs would be the best source I think bc it is coming straight. I appreciate the info and one of the commenters above indicated she could point someone in the right direction. I am going to email her.
ReplyDeleteI've probably done ALL of the things you aren't supposed to - I'm a slow learner, but I keep slogging away, and (hopefully) getting better.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, even as I've learned so much, the responses tend to be the same - nothing. So I have flashes that I'm still living in idiotland, making a fool of myself with my amateur efforts.
Thanks so much for those who still teach. As long as you are out there, I'll still keep plugging away
Otter blood, LOL.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way, to the point where I spend too much time--time I should probably be spending writing or networking--chasing down agent blog posts and interviews on the off-chance that they might say something that could help me write my query or polish my manuscript.
I appreciate that there are hard-working agents out there still trying to educate the masses, but as you say, there are still plenty of writers who have no idea that agents have blogs, or that you should NEVER call an agent unless you are their CLIENT.
But thanks to agents who blog, one of the most important things I've learned is not to quit.
I've grown so much as a writer--thanks to agent advice on the internet (not to mention your terrific book on querying). However, I don't think there's anyway around people doing the wrong thing--with queries, writing etc... People are just like that. I teach at a public high school and I give instructions orally, visually, I act them out if I have to, but I still have a percentage of students and parents who do it wrong. Some people are just wired to listen and do things right and others are wired to do the exact opposite. Until the gene researchers can find the learning genes and splice them into people who need them, I think were just stuck with the way things are.
ReplyDeleteWe may be in the mire with the others who don't know as much about the ins and outs of querying, but I don't agree that we're stuck in that mire. Writers who do their research will stand out.
ReplyDeleteI love your rant posts. You rant so nicely. :)
ReplyDeleteIt continues to surprise me that someone might write an entire book, then not do the research on queries. I'll admit to making a stupid query mistake now and then, though. I wish I could say it never happened. *embarrassed smiley*
Are you saying I can't write my query in otter's blood? Because it's actually quite fine...
ReplyDeleteHi fives, sister. Right there with ya!
ReplyDeleteOne thing we should all keep in mind is that when you're first starting out, you don't know much. You may not even know that writing blogs exist.
ReplyDeleteI think most of us have done a few things in this business where we've said later, I can't believe I did that, or didn't know that.
When I first started, you put your manuscript in a SASE and sent it out. A cover letter was nice, but you didn't really need one. The manuscript spoke for itself. And all I heard from the pros as a beginner was how newbies were clogging up editor's desks and that's why they were suddenly refusing to take full manuscripts.
It may have been true, but newbies weren't sending out lousy manuscripts knowing they were lousy. At that stage of the game, you just don't know the difference and you think you're sending out a good story.
I imagine things are pretty much the same today, except instead of manuscripts, we're dealing with queries and synopses. The people doing all the 'don'ts' are probably people who just haven't learned the ropes yet. In time they will, but more newbies will still come and take their place. It's just the way things are.
And yes, there will come a time when all the info being offered is useless to you, because you already know it. You can write a query and synopsis, you can write a good story, and you even know if what you've written is good or bad without a critique. That's when it's time to either move on from the blogs you're reading and find more advanced blogs that talk about marketing, promotion and networking (the next stage of the game) or stick around and help out those coming up behind you, or do both.
Yeah, there are folks in this business and every other business out there who won't ever get it right, but by and large, most people are willing to learn and play by the rules. Give them the chance that other people gave us.
Oh, and I wouldn't worry too much about a manuscript or query sinking into the mire with all the bad stuff. That's actually a good thing. Because if what you've written is good, it's going to stand out like a diamond in all that muck.
ReplyDeleteBarbara -- I agree with what you've said! However, I wasn't talking about people who haven't learned yet. I'm talking about the ones who WON'T learn because they are NOT researching, not reading the blogs, etc.
ReplyDeleteI didn't send a single query--ever--before I did some homework. Not saying my process was perfect. Just saying I didn't run into it blindfolded.
There's a huge difference between the unteachable and the not-yet-taught. My tiff is with the former. =)
It surprised me with Miss Snark's blog, just how many times the same questions always turned up. Isn't that why she gave it all up in the end. "You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink."
ReplyDeleteBut I have to add, and I think I'll take the coward's signature here, but I wonder how much of this fault lays at the doormat of the agents themselves. Surely a good agent can be a little less precious and be on the lookout for the perfect manuscript. A lot of authors I find write wonderful stories but write terrible synopses and awful query letters.
And here Authoress, is where your blog is so wonderful. It wipes away the cobwebs and provides shortcuts and incentives to prospective authors and agents without all the pain and angst getting in the way.
I have also seen with agent blogs, while the theory is the same, they don't always sing the same hymn and I believe that this sends some of the people into confusion and panic. Sure there are people who no matter what one says or does will continue to offend, and will continue to be their own worst enemy - but to me, one of the problems is that the query process should be one of commonsense and we all know that commonsense isn't common.
"The rest of writerdom is lurking beneath moss-coated rocks, penning queries with otter blood."
ReplyDelete:)
Oh, I agree. And I got that that's what you were saying. Those people are out there, and there's nothing any of us can do to stop them. All you can do is concentrate on your own work to make it the best it can be.
ReplyDeleteI did, though, want to say something on behalf of beginners, and I hope you and everyone else realizes that when I said 'you' I meant the collective 'you." We and us.
Slow learner – check
ReplyDeleteVoracious reader of all things about publishing – check
Educated via blogs & interviews – check
Re-worked, polished ms – check
Joined critique groups - check
Immersed myself in the sage wisdom of the fabulous Authoress - check
Researched agents – check
Beat Query into submission – check
Rejections - **big sigh** - check
Darn it, fairy blood isn’t working.
Does anyone have a spare otter?
The moss-coated rocks I got.
Sooooo true. I'm a seasoned conference goer, and I've started (gasp) skipping classes because it's the same old, same old.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite classes are the ones taught by writers who give great nuggets about their process, plotting techniques, voice--you know, THE WRITING!
Great post. I get really frustrated when I go to a conference and have to hear those 101 talks.
sf
I so agree with everyone! Hate, hate, hate the 'no response means no' crap. And yes, I'm tired of the same old, same old advice. As with Authoress, I've been there, done that.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: many, many agents suggest pasting the first page of your manuscript at the bottom of an equery or in with a snail mail query for this very reason (lousy query skills), BUT writers need to practice these skills because once you publish you are bought ON PROPOSAL, not completed manuscript.
And IMHO, if the query and synopsis stinks, then the writing isn't up to par either. I've judged numerous, numerous contests throughout the last eight years (40+) and if something is wrong with the query or synopsis, then it's wrong with the manuscript,too.
It is amazing how many times I see the same question asked of agents, the same mistakes in queries, the same lack of professionalism.
ReplyDeleteBut in all honesty, I think it happens with every industry, with every person looking to hire. And ultimately that's what agents are doing - they are hiring people! I have had to put up several job offers over the years - and it's amazing the emails I get. They are full of grammar mistakes, they don't contain what I asked for specifically, they aren't addressed to me, and they don't even fit what I'm looking for.
I guess it easily helps weed out the bad people, but it's still a big time suck :(
And this is why I wish agents would write a Query 401 post. Or maybe even graduate level.
ReplyDeleteThat would be far more useful than another iteration of "please don't fill the query envelope full of glitter!" post.
But I asked an agent about that once, and she basically told me that there is no such thing as Query 401, under that name or anything else. That once you have the formalities down, there are no rules.
I find this deeply frustrating [wry g].