Know why? Because, in order to make things work in a novel, it's got to be backed by LOGICAL MOTIVATION. Not just motivation, which can be tricky enough. (As in, why did Ricardo steal his mother's pink stilettos in the first place?) But it has to make sense. Lots and lots of sense. (Ricardo stole his mother's pink stilettos because he knew his father had hidden the Sacred Jewels inside the heels.)
Logic is not my strong point.
My husband, of course, knows this. He is highly amused by what he calls
"(insert-Authoress's-real-name)
You can imagine how hard plotting is for me.
You can imagine, also, how astounded I am when someone describes my novel as "well plotted." As though that couldn't possibly have happened.
Yeah. It's that hard.
So here I am. Moving SO slowly through this last important bit of story. Chapter 24. Which may as well be Chapter 4, for as little progress as I've made in the past two weeks. I know how the novel ends--really, I do! But it's the Getting There that's killing me.
It's all that logical, this-action-will-lead-to-that-action. The character motivation. The REASONS that lead to the big Boom.
Bleh.
It can't possibly be true that I'm the only author who struggles with logic. (And if it is true, I'm sure I don't want to know.) So please. If you're one of those struggles-with-logic authors, please share your survival techniques!
And if logic comes more easily for you, I want to hear from you, too. Sometimes watching someone else's brain work is a marvelous way to learn!
Okay. Sitting back and awaiting your words of wisdom.
I struggle a little with logic, so I understand your Spock reference. Though, overall, I do consider myself a logical person, it's just in my writing where things can get a little haywire.
ReplyDeleteI think sometimes that the things we struggle with the most end up being our strongest points, hence the folks who say your books are well plotted. I struggle with description far more than logic, and I hope one day that's an area I'm praised for since it's something I've been working on for about ten years.
You are most definitely NOT alone here. I, too, am closing in on the ending of my wip. Actually, what I'm doing is actually completely rewriting my previous epic fail of an ending. Anywho, it's taken me about 3 weeks now to write two chapters. o.o For perspective, the entire original draft of the novel (all 80,000 words) only took me two months. So. Yeah. It's a very sloooow process trying to make it all come together in a way that's not completely obvious, but that also makes complete sense.
ReplyDeleteI dunno about words of wisdom. For me, I've just been revisiting early parts of the work, rereading it over (and over and over), getting it ingrained in my brain, and then I've actually been giving myself permission NOT to write for a day or two. It's amazing what conclusions your subconscious will draw on its own about the way things should go, if you don't push it. And they're generally logical--maybe just because they're not forced, you know?
Also, up until these past few weeks, I'd never done any sort of outlining...but the other day I finally sat down and sketched out my novel, plot point by plot point. Kind of gave me a bird's eye view of things, if that makes sense. It also allowed me to hand off said plot sketch to random friends/family and be like "does this make sense?" without having to talk them into reading the entire 90,000 words.
If none of that works, I hear chocolate and fine wine can help things make more sense, sometimes ;) At any rate, good luck!
You know how you can fast forward a DVD to watch the part you want to watch?
ReplyDeleteWhen I get stuck, I give myself a fast forward. I write the section I know, and by doing so, usually figure out some things I didn't know... things that would get me past the stuck part. Sure, the dialog might come out less than pleasant, maybe the description is choppy and emotions are dramatic, but it gets me through. Which was what I needed to do in the first place.
I hate to say it, but this is one of the hurdles I tackle in during the outlining phase before I ever put hands to keyboard to write. But it's different when you write crime fiction. You have to have the case set before you start because the earlier clues have to match up to the end of the who-dunnit.
ReplyDeleteWhat if, instead of actually writing right now, you step back from it and just bullet point outline the ending and work on it that way (so do a mini-outline)? Run it by your husband or a critique partner or two as well because often just bouncing the idea off someone else can get other ideas flowing.
Good luck with it!
I just write it all out and put the logic in later. And if I can't make the logic fit, I rewrite until it does. It's not an easy road, but it works for me. ;o)
ReplyDeleteMy problem is that I struggle too much with logic. I've over-plotted stories before to where they feel too author driven, like I know where the story is going and make it go that way, rather than let it happen organically. I've gotten better at that, but it's still something I struggle with. I try not to over-think it!
ReplyDeleteIf your characters respond with truthful words and actions throughout, you should be on the right track. There's nothing worse than reading a book and saying to yourself, "No one would ever say that after seeing their 1977 black on black Pontiac Trans Am - in perfect working order - was keyed in a Wal Mart parking lot."
ReplyDeleteI find it really helps to write mission statements for each scene (I blogged about this here http://hollybodger.com/?p=515). If you do this from the very beginning and then read only your mission statements, you will see when your main character's motivation is unclear or when it changes in a way that doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteStephani, the first draft only took you two months?? I've been working bit by bit on my WIP for two years now. When I started, I knew where the story started and I knew where it ended, but in between was a lot of ...? I try to write each part of the story as well as I can, but then, a chapter or two later, I discover a character shows up or scene plays out that totally works in the situation, but makes the earlier part of the book all wrong.
ReplyDeleteI've only got two more chapters to go, though, before the first draft is finished and I can go back and rewrite what no longer works. I've had to force myself to not rewrite the story until it's completely finished. Now, THAT'S hard!
What is that I hear? An outline, did you say? What, exactly, is that??
Go backwards...start at the end and go backwards...
ReplyDeleteSuzanne, I can write very quickly when I want to :) it comes from years of being a procrastinating student; I got really good at writing ten page essays in 24 hrs. Although granted, I completed this last novel quicker than any before it. My first took me closer to a year.
ReplyDeleteI never write in sequence, always all over the place, and I often start from the middle of the book. I find if I get stuck in one place, writing another bit, where I know what happens, usually unsticks the stuck part. So, my advice would be to skip forward. You say you know the ending. Write it. You may find the answers there.
ReplyDeleteI try to tackle the logic up front to make it easier down the road. It's a struggle doing it ahead of time, too. I know what I want to happen, but I have to find a reason why it could/should/would. My boyfriend is great for brainstorming these kinds of things. And, since my current WiP is YA, my daughter has even joined in some of the sessions. :)
ReplyDeleteI just leave it- and my computer. Ignore it, go for a walk, grocery shopping, whatever. I do the same with my "real" work of writing websites, which have to be logical and based on fact, not my usual cup'o'tea. And sure enough, it hits me out of nowhere -the "DUH!" moment- and it all comes together like it was meant to be.
ReplyDeleteThe shower seems to have the biggest percentage of DUH's, which is why I keep pen and paper in the bathroom. Could be the negative ions in the water or yummy smelly stuff in the shampoo that loosens the brain waves so they can dart to and fro again.
Suzanne: An outline is what many of us wrote in HS & college AFTER we already completed our paper, and only because the prof insisted on it. I have tried the outline first method, and my paper/story always ended up on a completely different planet. It only works for those organized types, the ones who file things IN their desks in actual files instead of on the floor.
No words of wisdom, but boy howdy can I sympathize.
ReplyDeleteMe too. I'm having to go back in and rewrite because I thought "it'll be okay with that coincidence" & didn't bother following it through. *sigh* It's not okay & rewrites are a pain in the patootie. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteThere are minds that are naturally logical and others not. You have to work at logic if it is not easy for you. I know you are highly creative and have excellent ideas. Some authors struggle with characterization, or voice, or story arc. Keep going my darling. You always press through and the outcome is great!
ReplyDeleteI also have no words of wisdom. I have the opposite problem - I think logically but am missing the out-of-the-box spark of creativity that gives life to a story. I think and write linearly. I couldn't write a story out of order if I tried.
ReplyDeleteI have an outline, usually a mental one, that I use as a guide but I don't lock myself into it. When I venture away from my outline or add a significant detail I go back through earlier sections/chapters to make sure it works. I ask myself "why" and "how" a lot to make sure the motivation makes sense and the action is possible.
Oh wow! First time poster. I'm not the most logical person on the planet. For example, if I hear a noise downstairs in the middle of the night, I immediately jump to the conclusion that it's a monster. What else could it be? Makes sense to me!
ReplyDeleteWhen I write, I ask myself WWID? What Would I Do? That usually works. There is a weird method/logic to my madness - I put myself in my characters' shoes and make a decision based upon their pathology, history, thought processes, level of self-awareness. Seems to work for me. Good luck!
I think Mr. A is right - we all struggle with something. Logic is one of my strengths. I've always been very strong at math and I love puzzles. I grew up thinking I was too left-brained to be creative. Then I discovered that story writing can be a bit of a puzzle, and it's fun. But I struggle with other aspects, for sure. I wish I had a poet's way with language.
ReplyDeleteI walk away and feed my subconscious. To quote Philip Pullman: "I have stolen ideas from every book I have ever read."
ReplyDeleteI steal them from everywhere else too. I read everything I can get my hands on (mags, news, outside my genre, non-fiction) and I catch up on movies and my fav TV series.
Then I wait patiently (took me years to figure this out) and it always pays off, usually in the middle of the night!
Good luck and thanks for this wonderful community you've built.
The shower works for me, too. I get so peeved at my children when they pop their little heads in to ask questions during that SACRED time.
ReplyDeleteThere is very little logic in my approach. Maybe that's why I'm on draft number...uh... I lost count.
Mr. A sound very supportive :)
Well, I'm just getting started on plotting my new book and my pin board looks like a deranged voodoo doll. I'm staring at it, say why, why, why, would you do this main character, why? And I fear I sound much like Little Cindy Loo Hoo from The Grinch who Stole Christmas. I do hope my MC's heart grows 3 times its size by the end. I'll be posting my progress here, including snapshots of my visual boards:
ReplyDeletehttp://whyiya.blogspot.com/
I'm with anonymous. I write backwards. Not the whole novel-just the part I'm stuck on. I start where I'm stuck, then ask the question - why would he do that, or why would that happen, and after I flll in the anwswer, I ask the question again, this time about the answer. Then I keep doing that, working backwards, until the answer I come up with meshes with my existing plot.
ReplyDeleteIn most cases, it only takes about 3-5 steps, although sometimes, it can go on forever, in which case, I give up and start with a new reason why someone would do that.
Yay! Sorry for sounding enthusiastic about your troubles, it's just that you help the author community so much and we rarely get a chance to reciprocate. :)
ReplyDeleteMotivational logic isn't much of a challenge for me. My mother, bless her, bred and poured empathy into me when I was a kid, and it stuck. Motivations are usually the governing force behind evens in novels, so if you can figure that out, you're set.
One of my favorite ways when I run into logic trouble (and it happens a LOT) is to look at it like a puzzle. Lay out every piece - write everything that has to do with the confusing plot point down on a piece of paper, and arrange those papers on a table. Even some things that don't, at first, seem to have anything to do with it. Then come up with three absolutely crazy, out-there ways to fit them together to get your brain working. By the fourth try, your mind will actually start working rationally, and you may discover new backstory or motivations you didn't know about before - or you'll have an OH! lightbulb moment. :) I love those.
Anyway, it's just an idea. At least 90% of the time when I don't know how to get from plot point A to plot point D (through points B and C) it's because I'm missing a thread of the story. :) I hope this helps!!
I second Bethany Elisabeth's approach (especially when you're revising). But you can save yourself a lot of trouble if you have a scene by scene outline with no more than a single sentence for each scene BEFORE you start writing the first draft. With a single sentence, you don't feel like you've overplotted and your Muse will be happy to come out and play AND you can easily change scenes you haven't written when a better idea comes along (and they do that all the time). Sorry for the long sentences.
ReplyDeleteI know this sounds simplistic, but every now and then when I strike a plot inconsistency that doesn't seem to ever make sense, I sleep on it - forgot about it. It's amazing the number of times the brain, the sub-conscious works it out for you.
ReplyDeleteBut make sure you have a pen and paper handy beside your bed, just in case you wake up at 4am with the idea fully formed!
Good luck, Authoress :P
I'm completely with you on this. I find logic very hard :)
ReplyDeleteI've struggled with logic as well. Blake Snyder's book Save the Cat helped me a LOT with this.
ReplyDeleteI have a notebook full of "What if...." Then I choose what makes the most sense.
ReplyDeleteAh, okey dokey...here goes. Struggles in logic usually come from two places for me, being overtired first and foremost, and over thinking. So my advice is to sleep number one. Second, is to let yourself travel to that moment of difficulty and step through it, even if you have to pass through the mundane, 'cause usually you end up some place good. Then go back and fix up what got you there.
ReplyDeleteHere's my last tip that REALLY REALLY works for me. Read! Read about the era your writing in, the setting - non fiction preferably. This opens up another realm of possibility. I spend a lot of time in the rare books section of my state library and I can tell you after reading some of those books, you walk away with a resonating richness that will hit pages and help take you to logical places.
Hey, whatever works and it will always be something different for each of us! Good luck.
And yanno, these are comments are exactly as awesome as I knew they'd be. Such diverse answers, too. (Love the way all you plotters insist my life will be a bed of roses if only I outline first! LOL Little do you know that the staring is even WORSE when I try that approach!)
ReplyDeleteYou're all amazing.
Even EMPATHY without advice attached is amazing. Much-needed.
Mr. A walked through my entire outline with me last night (that is, the outline of the already-existing story). Now he's on my official brainstorming team!
I *just* blogged about scenes needing to be logical in my: "Ten Commandments of Creating Effective Scenes" post.
ReplyDeleteIt's easier to let things flow logically if you follow the rules of cause and effect. ie. If this happpens, what would happen next?
I highly recommend reading "Scene and Structure" by Jack Bickham. He's amazing. Granted, I had to read the book a couple times because it can be a bit heavy (for me, anyways) but it's well worth it!
I've tried the plotting suggestions before (got as far as 'this happens in this scene' thing. Usually after I've written it.), the non-sequential writing used to work for me, but I found I was fixing more continuation errors than actual writing so I stopped it. Somehow, knowing there’s a scene I can write easily waiting for me, then the harder one doesn’t feel so much like a chore.
ReplyDeleteSo, when I get stuck on a scene, I read what I've written so far, then go somewhere nice and quiet (preferably alone) and er ... essentially talk to myself. Whether in my head or out loud (the latter is much better as I find myself acting out the smaller moves, hence the 'alone').
Okay, now I must sound like a lunatic, but I found this method especially effective when I've known where I was meant to be going and discover I’ve somehow lost my way. The dialogue may not be the same as what passed through my lips, but it comes close.
As they say, different people, different ways.
Okay, so it's not particularly wise, but WELCOME TO MY WORLD. Last ten pages probably equal the last eight months of my life, and they still aren't written. Just like you, I know exactly what happens, but the precise 'how' of it, is diabolical.
ReplyDeleteJust a little extra solidarity.
Ame
Great post and insightful comments. Not sure I have much to add, except to say, "My name is Densie and I'm a pantser." With my current WIP, I started out by writing the first and last chapter and then worked my way through the middle. At 50,000 words, I resorted to developing a quasi-outline to at least make sure my timeline was accurate.
ReplyDeleteNow, at 63,000 words, my ending has stayed pretty much the same. It still feels right. However, I have a checkered pattern of chapters in various stages of development, from done to just a sentence or two reminding what belongs there.
I get a twinge of guilt and a feeling of inferiority everytime I read something about how outlines are essential and anyone who doesn't work with one from the outset is an AMATEUR or DELUSIONAL. It's good to know there are other pantsers out there who have accepted their writing lot in life.
Oh and the shower and walking provide my best AHA! moments. When walking, I just enter my thoughts into the notepad function on my phone. It's provided some of my best ideas.
ReplyDeletenice!
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